Room Conversation 05Apr1977, Mumbai

Girirāja: ...As Your Divine Grace had said, that due to the saṅkīrtana movement an auspicious atmosphere is being created all over the world. So is it not possible that at least for the time being things will improve?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Improve. Not for the time being - for ten thousand years.

Girirāja: Yes. Out of 427,000 years, I was taking that 10,000 as "for the time being."

Prabhupāda: It is nothing,...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, where is the mention of that ten thousand years?

Prabhupāda: That I have heard it. Maybe in the Bhāgavata.


Room Conversation 13May1969, Columbus, Ohio

Allen Ginsberg: So Kalki comes at the end of the Kali-yuga?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Allen Ginsberg: And is Kalki connected with the Kali-yuga cycle?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kalki, yes.

Allen Ginsberg: So He would come at the end of Kali-yuga to end the yuga.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then Satya-yuga will begin.

Allen Ginsberg: Then what begins?

Prabhupāda: Satya-yuga.

Allen Ginsberg: Which is?

Prabhupāda: Satya-yuga, the pious. Satya-yuga. People will be pious, truthful, long-living.

Allen Ginsberg: Are those people that remain, or whatever new creation comes out of the destruction?

Prabhupāda: Some of them will remain, some of them. It will not completely extinguish. Some of them will remain, pious. Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8). All miscreants will be killed, and out of them, there must be some pious...they remain.

Allen Ginsberg: Do you think of this in terms of a historical event that will occur in the lifetime of your disciples?

Prabhupāda: No. This will happen at least 400,000's of years after. At least. So by that time...

Allen Ginsberg: They will go down, down, down for 400,000 years?

Prabhupāda: Yes. So at that time my disciples will be with Kṛṣṇa. (laughter)

Devotees: Haribol!

Prabhupāda: And those who will not follow them, they will see the fun, how they are being killed. (laughter)

Allen Ginsberg: Four hundred thousand years. Will people be still chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa in 400,000...

Prabhupāda: No. Hare Kṛṣṇa will be finished within ten thousand years. There will be no more Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Allen Ginsberg: Ah. So what will be left?

Prabhupāda: Nothing. Left will be "I'll kill you and eat you, and you shall kill me, you shall eat me." That will be left.

Allen Ginsberg: After ten thousand years?

Prabhupāda: Yes. There will be no grain, no milk, no sugar, no fruit. So I have to eat you, and you will have to eat me. Full facility for meat-eating. (laughter) Full facility. Kṛṣṇa is very kind. He'll give facility: "All right. Why cows and calves? You take your own son. Yes. Eat nicely." Just like serpents, snakes, they eat their own offsprings; tigers. So this will happen.

Allen Ginsberg: Kālī eats her own...

Prabhupāda: Yes. And there will be no brain to understand, no preacher, nothing else. Go. Go to...to the dog. And then Kṛṣṇa will come, "All right, let Me kill you so that you are saved."

Allen Ginsberg: But you see it as actually a historical thing of ten thousand years for the chanting, of the diminishing chanting of...

Prabhupāda: Yes. These are...

Allen Ginsberg: Well, then do you think more people will chant Hare Kṛṣṇa or fewer?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. More people. Now it will increase.

Allen Ginsberg: Until?

Prabhupāda: Up to ten thousand years.

Allen Ginsberg: And then?

Prabhupāda: Then diminish.

Allen Ginsberg: So what is the purpose of, right now, a world increase...

Prabhupāda: People will take advantage of this up to ten thousand years. Then they will...

Allen Ginsberg: So this is like the last rope, the last gasp.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Last gasp. Yes. So the sooner we take to shelter, shelter of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is better.

Allen Ginsberg: Well, then, according to Vedic theory, when did this yuga begin? According to this Vedic theory . . . or . . . this is śāstra?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Allen Ginsberg: When did this yuga...?

Prabhupāda: Begin from this Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He introduced five hundred years ago, and it will continue now.

Hayagrīva: Kali-yuga.

Prabhupāda: Kali-yuga has begun five thousand years ago.

Allen Ginsberg: Oh. Began five thousand years ago.

Kīrtanānanda: But this wave within Kali-yuga, in which Hare Kṛṣṇa increases and then diminishes, is about ten thousand years, and that began five hundred years ago.

Prabhupāda: Kali-yuga, the duration of life of Kali-yuga is 432,000's of years. Out of that, we have passed five thousand years. There is balance, 427,000's of years. Out of that, 10,000 years is nothing.

Allen Ginsberg: Where is all this...?

Prabhupāda: Vedic literature.

Allen Ginsberg: What...?

Prabhupāda: Padma Purāṇa. Purāṇas.

Allen Ginsberg: Bhāgavata Purāṇa.

Prabhupāda: Bhāgavata Purāṇa.

Allen Ginsberg: Has the detailed analysis of what goes on within the Kali-yuga?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Oh, yes, yes. I'll read you sometimes.

Allen Ginsberg: There are translations of that. There are some translations of that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. In the Twelfth Canto, the Kali-yuga descriptions are there.

Allen Ginsberg: Twelfth Canto.

Prabhupāda: Twelfth Canto. And you will find that all the descriptions are coming to be true.

Guest 1: True.

Prabhupāda: Just like there is one statement, svīkaram eva udvahe: "Marriage will be performed simply by agreement." Now that is being done. And lāvaṇyaṁ keśa-dharaṇam (SB 12.2.6). "People will think that he has become very beautiful by keeping bunch of hairs." That is coming true. These are written there. All things are there in Bhāgavata history.

Allen Ginsberg: Well, in the Bhāgavata Purāṇa is there also provision for the Caitanya cult?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Kṛṣṇa-varṇaṁ tviṣākṛṣṇam (SB 11.5.32). We have given that in that book, our Teachings of Lord Caitanya. That is the first quotation there.

Allen Ginsberg: So it's on this quotation from Bhāgavata Purāṇa that Caitanya built His system?

Prabhupāda: No, no. That is program already presented, and He came to execute the program. Just like our meeting is already programmed; I come and execute it. That's all. That was previous. Clearly it is said, "In the Kali-yuga, the Supreme Lord comes as one who always chants the holy name of Śrī Kṛṣṇa, who is Śrī Kṛṣṇa Himself, whose complexion is yellow." Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Eleventh Canto, Fifth Chapter, 32nd verse.

Allen Ginsberg: It's in there.

Prabhupāda: So we have accepted Lord Caitanya as Kṛṣṇa not fanatically. There are evidences in Mahābhārata, in Upaniṣads, in Purāṇas, in Bhāgavata, in all Vedic scripture.

Allen Ginsberg: Well, then, within this period of ten thousand years, only those who hear Kṛṣṇa's name and worship Kṛṣṇa by chanting...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet (SB 12.3.51). That is also stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

Allen Ginsberg: So only those who practice Kṛṣṇa chanting can attain mokṣa.

Prabhupāda: They become immediately liberated and go back to home, back to Godhead.

Allen Ginsberg: And everybody else gets involved deeper and deeper in the yuga.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, yes. So if anyone believes in the śāstras, they should take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is intelligence, to take advantage of authorized scriptures.